Tuesday, May 19, 2009

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Come Out From Them ... and Secede?


I suppose in a country of 300+ million people, it is possible to find a group of people who will believe almost anything. Even so, it is very troubling to think that there are people who think God wants His people to do this:
ChristianExodus.org was founded in November of 2003 in response to the moral degeneration of American culture, and the rampant corruption among the powers that be. The initial goal was to move thousands of Christian constitutionalists to South Carolina to accelerate the return to self-government based upon Christian principles at the local and State level. This project continues to this day, with the ultimate goal of forming an independent Christian nation that will survive after the decline and fall of the financially and morally bankrupt American empire.
It is of some comfort, I suppose, that they've thus far failed to gain sufficient traction to pull this off:
We have learned, however; that the chains of our slavery and dependence upon godless government have more of a hold on us than can be broken by simply moving to another State.
This context is helpful in evaluating what they now want us to do now:
As many like-minded Christian activists pursue independent Christian living without relocating, the scope has expanded to promote "personal secession" [through] many and various tracks, wherever they can be implemented. The long process of disentanglement from idolatrous dependencies includes such practices of moving towards a home-centered economy, with intentional community, home-schooling, home-gardening, house churches, health-cost sharing, private exchange, unlicenced ministry, and any other way in which we might live free and godly lives in Christ Jesus, without prostrating ourselves to eat from the hand of the imperial magistrate.
This is a "come out from them and be separate" call. It sounds biblical in many ways, and yet what do we do with the "go into all the world" mandate? And how will we do this ...
Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. (1 Pet 2:12)
... if we no longer live our lives among the pagans? Does "being separate" imply "personal secession"? More to the point for most of us, where does the balance lie between separation for purity's sake and integration for the gospel's sake?

19 comments:

  1. Maybe these thoughts are closer to being of belief... http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre17hrev17.html

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  2. This land was populated by just such a movement. Remember the Mayflower?? The Pilgrims wanted religious freedom so badly that they crossed an ocean, and formed a brand new colony to get it. What were they running from? The morally bankrupt British empire.

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  3. If only Christians were automatically free of sin, this might make some sense.

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  4. I'd rather go to Texas instead of South Carolina..............

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  5. Amen brother, amen!

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  6. Up here in Seattle I hear of people preparing to head for the mountains, too. Jesus said preach the Gospel until everyone has been reached. I would say going where they can no longer do that is a very selfish thing and not showing faith in God to save them while they continue to serve Him.

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  7. I have heard of this group, actually read about them , they soound like a cult . Concerning to me , since I live near Charleston,S.C.. I read about them in my local newspaper, and it also might have been an A.P. article. PRAY is what we have , not a given , in all things , and God knew they were talking about moving here before we did ( of course) hopefully they will be truely converted !
    blessings and shalom,

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  8. God has called us to be light in the midst of darkness. We do not need to go anywhere but on our needs and pray for the lost.

    He has left us the ministry of reconciliation - it is the lost that we must influence.

    Let's be the Church instead of playing church.

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  9. Actually, the outward shell of this proposal sounds a bit like the way St. Patrick evangelized Ireland. He went into a ctown and formed a Christian community inside it. They welcomed and showed love to all, both within and outside their compound. Outsiders were welcome to move in among them if they were willing to commit to a practical form of the Golden Rule. As people lived in a place full of faith, hope and love, many of them converted to Christianity. As their community grew, some families left and started the process over in other towns.

    That said, what you printed from this group seemed to focus more on what they are against rather than what they are for. That is never a good way to infect the culture with the Good News.

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  10. So do they support the call for a Constitutional Amendment to ban homosexual marriage? If they do then there is a problem in their statement regarding individual and states' rights.

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  11. I said it before on the other post and I will say it again. If I was going to secede from the USA, I'd rather move to Texas. I'm not knocking South Carolina but Texas has a reputation of being an independent country. It is the only state where the state (Texas) flag flies above the US flag.

    There are many opinions on this but let us all use the Bible as our guide and not hate others who disagree with us. I could understand if you want to be with others who think like you do and I also understand that this country has turned further away from God (and Jesus). However, I would hate to see a day when a person judges me or vice versa and he/she chooses if I deserve to be somewhere based upon how my views match up with theirs. There is only one Judge.....

    That doesn't mean that I can do what I want, when I want and to whom I choose. We are somewhat civilized and we do have laws (albeit many are becoming vague and open to interpretation).

    Let's pray that cooler minds prevail...........

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  12. Point 1 : Did Jesus do this? Did Peter do this? Did Paul do this? They all lived in a spiritually bankrupt nation which was overseen by a morally bankrupt empire.
    Point 2: On this earth, I believe it is impossible to have a morally pure nation. Israel tried for generations as a separatist nation and we read the result in the whole of the Old Testament. Even the early church had its problems (infighting about the daily distribution.)
    Point 3 : There is a new earth and new heaven where this is possible, but we're not in it. When Yahweh wants us there, he will get us there.
    Point 4: In the meantime, yes, we can separate ourselves from evil and pursue righteousness.

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  13. So, where the pilgrims wrong for colonizing the new world and wanting to establish a Christian community?

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  14. Just a little bit of difference in the fact that the new world had no state or federal laws and was still being battled for by the rulers of England, France and Spain and let's not forget the Native Americans who were here first. Everything was pretty much wide open in the 1600's.

    Today we are a sovereign nation comprised of 50 states and the District of Columbia along with our territories. We have a constitution and laws that unite us (and sometimes separate us) but overall we have a democracy and not a monarchy like the Pilgrims dealt with.

    Today, if a group decides that they no longer want to be part of the United States they must do what the Pilgrims did when they decided they didn't want to be part of the United Kingdom - leave their homeland and find a foreign country that has no laws or government and set up their own form of government.

    Otherwise, you have the possibility of a civil war (albeit it happens all the time throughout history) as your only other option. I doubt the folks in South Carolina or even those across America that agree with the ideology of a 100% Christian Nation are prepared to go that far.......

    Besides what would be the primary corporate religion in this independent state (country) would it be Baptist or Catholic or Protestant (we all know how well the Catholics and Protestants get along) or would it be non-denominational and open to all Christian faiths? Who decides this? Is it open for a vote and the majority rules? Sounds hauntingly familiar doesn't it?

    However, if that were to happen - please go to Texas and not South Carolina.

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  15. Jerry,
    Move on from Texas. You are obsessed!:) Besides if you are going to move to Texas for the reasons you mentioned it ought to be to Nantucket or the Yineyard. (what an appropriate name) Don't forget they voted to secede a few years ago. They make Texas look like a bunch of squatters. I think Maine might be a good looking option as well. They are pretty independent.

    You make a lot of good points Jerry, especially the one about which corpoarate religion, which we would have to assume would be this particular secessionist group's perspective. Remember the bottom line reason is we have this extreme approach to separate church and religion are Jefferson's comments about a state not having a state sponsored denomination.

    And there are groups who are basically separate entities in this country. The Amish are a great example. They do not pay taxes, but they also do not vote nor take any government money. Of course they are subject to the majority of state and federal laws.

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  16. Good point and well taken. But I like Texas because I lived and worked there for half my professional life. Plus, I live in Oklahoma and it is closer than South Carolina or Maine.

    Honestly, I want everyone to know that I am just having a good time with this. I'm not trying to diminish the importance (or the ridiculousness depending on your view) of this SC group's desire to find a euphoric place. I am simply having fun even if I am the only one being amused.

    God Bless Everyone,

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  17. Here's another angle on this ... there are two sides to becoming a "Christian nation." It has happened before (beginning with Constantine). Generally speaking, it has had a salutary effect on the state, and has facilitated the spread of the gospel in the short run. Unfortunately, there is also generally a corrupting effect on the church over time, as temporal power begins to attract the wrong kind of leaders. The church learns to love the ease that come with being favored, and succumbs to sloth. Moreover, Christians begin to confuse the threats to their position in the state with more compelling dangers. For example, much of the church's response to homosexual sin is driven by our fear of losing the protection of the family within the state system. We are understandably jealous for our culture, but we lose the bubble on the more insidious threats, and silently watch the continued drift of the church away from our primary mission to minister Christ in our society.

    There. A whole comment completed with no mention of Texas. Oops. :)

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  18. Great points ... I was thinking earlier what Romans has to say with "supporting" (not sure if that is quite the correct term) your leaders. I think the other thing that comes out of this, to add to your points, are Christians, in particular leaders, using half truths, innuendos and sometimes lies, to promote their position. If we don't set the standard who will?

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  19. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you..."

    This is a reference to false churches and false doctrines, not political movements.

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